Curse

Tengoku No Yushosha · Jun 24, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Hello. I'd like to talk about the Elementalist's power of "Hydromancing". Many people have made insults and comments over time about Hydromancing. Is it because its they're opinion? Or maybe they just don't understand how it works?

Sanjinu Dalsworth · Jun 24, 2005, 05:53 AM // 05:53

I would be one who insults it to tell the truth.Maybe you are right and I do not see what power they have. However I have looked at their spells nothing caught me eyes.So I am like evrybody else and went pyro.If you find anything good please tell me AI would like to try a hydromancer.My IGN is Sanjinu Dalsworth.

Keure · Jun 24, 2005, 05:57 AM // 05:57

From http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=15263

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I've been playing my Elementalist mostly as a Water mage in PvP recently, and I have nothing but good things to say about it.

The single target damage is actually pretty good. A level 16 Water Trident or Shard Storm will deal 69 damage per hit, coupled with the knockdown / snare. 69 should look familiar, it's the same damage that a Lightning Strike will deal to a 60 AL target. You still have your Conjure. You don't have the gratuitious damage spikes that Air has (Surge + Orb), but as far as just hammering away on someone goes you're not too far off.

Plus you get the benefit of snaring with almost every cast. The damage you might have lost from the skills themselves is made up from more arrows landing, from your Warriors being able to catch the target, from all the benefits that come from immobilizing a target.

Plus you get Maelstrom for dais.

The problem that water has is that it isn't a particularly deep line. You can't chain cast like you can potentially with Fire / Air, so you're going to have times where you're just wanding - which makes Conjure Frost critical. You have a huge dependence upon Water Trident, as it's your only spam skill - I wouldn't even bother trying to play a hydromancer until I'd captured Trident. You just don't have enough to do without it.

It's decent but unspectacular in PvE - really, you should just play a Pyromancer and get it over with. PvE is all about massive AoE effects and fire has a ton of reasonably priced ones on fast recharges. Plus the snare effects are pretty marginal against mobs - oh, you can slow down one of eight melee dorks who are just going to aggro your tank anyway.

So my advise would be to play a generic fire mage until you get access to Water Trident in the south shiverpeaks. At that point you can make the switch, and never go back if you don't want to.

Kanraku · Jun 24, 2005, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Hydromancers and Geomancers, and even Aeromancers are pretty uncommon in PvE. For example, today I found two near-max water wands/staffs and two max energy frost artifacts. Since I knew I'd never sell them, I decided to give them to the first hydromancer I found. I went to lions arch and asked if anyone was a hydromancer. Some guy immidately said "me", I was surprised I got a response so fast. Then someone else asked "what do you have to do to become a hydromancer" and then the guy was like "you use fire skills and necro skills". I corrected him and explained that "mancer" was a suffix not limited to necros.

So, I went to another channel and asked if there were any "water elementalists" (to clarify). One person replied "Nah, how could you pass up fire when it's so good?" Then I said: "Well, I wanted to give some max damage weapons and focuses to reward them for their uniqueness". Then immidately I got 2 people saying that they were hydromancers... Turns out one was just and elementalist that "could become" a hydromancer, and another was like a R/N just looking for some quick cash.

So, I gave up and sold all my hydrostuff to the merchant, knowing that no one wants a unique character. I have to admit, the hyrdo spells are rather underpowered. Half of them focus on slowing down the enemy, which usually isn't a really big deal. Mark my words, though! If ANet ever loads up the nerf gun, pyromancers are going to be one of the first to feel it, perhaps along with W/Mo's. I think they'd value an equal diversity of characters, and hate to see people all going for the same build. People are too focused on direct damage, and that's why there aren't a whole lot of mesmers around. But those who play mesmers properly can do much more damage much sneakier than most other players just mindlessly spamming spells or swinging weapons.

If you still want to be unique, try a water/air mix. Shock + some of the better water hexes can be a good combo.

pinoy474 · Jun 24, 2005, 06:06 AM // 06:06

hmm . . . a rare class . . . i like it . . . thx for an opportunity to actually be orginal . . . mabey make a R/E or a E/Me focused in water =P

Tengoku No Yushosha · Jun 24, 2005, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinoy474

hmm . . . a rare class . . . i like it . . . thx for an opportunity to actually be orginal . . . mabey make a R/E or a E/Me focused in water =P

I'm that E/Me focused in water =D

Arcanis Imperium · Jun 24, 2005, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Even though its not the same, I base myself as a Mesmer Elementalist who uses Aero spells. I just find the armor penetration or lightning and disarming effect of wind to be more effective when I'm surrounded by enemies. But I've heard numerous suggestions to me to take up Hydromancing, because the Hexes of the Hydro magic coincides well with Mesmer Hexes.

If I didnt love my lightning so much, I probably would. And unlike what you would think Air and Water magic mix well.

silvertemplar · Jun 24, 2005, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

People are too focused on direct damage, and that's why there aren't a whole lot of mesmers around. But those who play mesmers properly can do much more damage much sneakier than most other players just mindlessly spamming spells or swinging weapons.

No, actually the PvE itself is too focused on direct damage. I took my Mesmer/Necro through the PvE part, i ended up with using pure Necro damage dealing spells because the Mesmer stuff is just nowhere. 90% of the of mesmer spells are SINGLE TARGET [which already disqualifies it from 90% of all general PvE use], the others simply do not have an effect [i.e. energy draining] . The only alternative requires a combo'ing multiple "non-damage" spells to achive damage [shatter hexes, epidemic, which not only costs energy but take up valuable slot spaces and casting time] , and you will start to wonder why you don't simply cast phoenix from a distance [where it is the least effective] to achieve the same....

I'm now playing my Elem/Mesmer , again i'm at Aurora Glade with him and realised the only mesmer spells i considered was healing related or ones that gives me ability to cast my FIRE spells faster [echo].

I toyed with Air, there is a few worthy spells but the ones that are more appropriate for PvE just comes along too late [chain lightning?]. I usually just combo Air+Fire and use Air for single targets and Fire for area effects. Water, well as was said, less damage but you get "slow" based effects which are pointless in PvE [maybe end game it might have uses, but certainly not for the 80% of "main-game"]. Earth primarily gives alot of buffs which gets ripped from you anyway [and even if its not, if you are targetted it will not save you in PvE].

Weezer_Blue · Jun 24, 2005, 09:26 AM // 09:26

If I had to rank the elements from worst to best it would be...

Fire, Water, Air, Earth. Fire sucks. Earth is good if you know what you're doing. Air is a close second, and water is pretty close to fire. Yeah, you can snare. Wow. It's pretty good considering it's a hex that can only be removed by anti-hex, but it's not worth it when your team expects damage, damage, and more damage.

Fire is only good for PvE, where your enemies are stupid enough to stand in the middle of your AoEs. It has uses in PvP, but not common ones.

ScorchedSun · Jun 24, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

If I had to rank the elements from worst to best it would be...

Fire, Water, Air, Earth. Fire sucks. Earth is good if you know what you're doing. Air is a close second, and water is pretty close to fire. Yeah, you can snare. Wow. It's pretty good considering it's a hex that can only be removed by anti-hex, but it's not worth it when your team expects damage, damage, and more damage.

Fire is only good for PvE, where your enemies are stupid enough to stand in the middle of your AoEs. It has uses in PvP, but not common ones.

Of course, you ranking of the elements is based on PvP only. PvE, then fire is the best, and it also depends where you go. Though I agree with you about earth being good in many situations. A good pure earth elementalist can tank and I've seen it

.

Tyrent Frath · Jun 24, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Because of the boosts/wards earth elems have against any kind of damage, theyre good in pvp.

Tengoku No Yushosha · Jun 24, 2005, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

If I had to rank the elements from worst to best it would be...

Fire, Water, Air, Earth. Fire sucks. Earth is good if you know what you're doing. Air is a close second, and water is pretty close to fire. Yeah, you can snare. Wow. It's pretty good considering it's a hex that can only be removed by anti-hex, but it's not worth it when your team expects damage, damage, and more damage.

Fire is only good for PvE, where your enemies are stupid enough to stand in the middle of your AoEs. It has uses in PvP, but not common ones.

First, Hydromancing isn't all about "snaring". A E/Me can cast Blurred Vision against a enemy Warrior or Ranger. The Hydro spell Maelstrom, is good for spellscasters, If your running, casting a water hex spell such as Deep Freeze or Ice Spikes and water trident to knock them down gives you a better chance of hitting them. Sometimes its not all about pure damage, It could be about how the diffrent elements can benefit each other.

Tengoku No Yushosha · Jun 24, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

The problem with people disliking Hydromancing so much is that they take one look at it, and go "Oh, slowing....big whoop.". Maybe if they actually took the time to think how Hydromancing can help they wouldn't think so bad of it. For example, If you pair a Hydromancer with an Aeromancer (-So they're both strong in they're attributes-), The Hydro spells cause the hex (-Which some Aero spells may rely on-) and the slow effect (-Which if the target is trying to run, making it even harder-) so that the Aeromancer can keep casting from they're location. Another example is that if you pair a Hydromancer with a Pyromancer (-Again, so both may have they're best in they're attribute-). The Hydromancer's roll is to slow and keep the enemy still for as long as possible. The Pyromancer's AOE will have a better effect with a still target. Though, I have yet to test it with a Geomancer. Hydromancing will even work with diffrent professions. Though this will be too long if I did

Firestreak · Jun 25, 2005, 02:01 AM // 02:01

My Water Mage kicks butt!

Um, it doesn't really have a true strategy to it, because there really arent enough creative skills. But it gets the job done.

Water Trident, Ice Spear, Ice Spikes, Frozen Burst, Glyph of L.E., Maelstrom, Armor of Mist, and Res Siggy.

I know posting my build is stupid but you shoudd look at it in depth. It doesn't actually follow a true stratgy, but you can always make one out of it. You can for example, cast an ice spikes on someone and follow up with maelstrom. Perhaps if your chasing a foe, you use AOM and then Water Trident to knock him down. He'll be down long enough to use it again....and again...and again. If you're just spamming for damage then Ice Spear works ok. And if you need to get away, AOM and FB.

I think the thing people have against Hydromancers is that they arent bulky nuking uberelementalists of death. Theyre support elementalists, and theyre very good at it. Its just that most people who play elementalist like to act like warriors and if your one of these you have to act like a monk, causing hell at a distance

Tengoku No Yushosha · Jun 25, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firestreak

My Water Mage kicks butt!

Um, it doesn't really have a true strategy to it, because there really arent enough creative skills. But it gets the job done.

Water Trident, Ice Spear, Ice Spikes, Frozen Burst, Glyph of L.E., Maelstrom, Armor of Mist, and Res Siggy.

I know posting my build is stupid but you shoudd look at it in depth. It doesn't actually follow a true stratgy, but you can always make one out of it. You can for example, cast an ice spikes on someone and follow up with maelstrom. Perhaps if your chasing a foe, you use AOM and then Water Trident to knock him down. He'll be down long enough to use it again....and again...and again. If you're just spamming for damage then Ice Spear works ok. And if you need to get away, AOM and FB.

I think the thing people have against Hydromancers is that they arent bulky nuking uberelementalists of death. Theyre support elementalists, and theyre very good at it. Its just that most people who play elementalist like to act like warriors and if your one of these you have to act like a monk, causing hell at a distance

Atleast someone gets how Hydromancing works. Your build is quite good. Though, instead of Armor of Mist, Forzen Burst, and Ice spear, I use Shard Storm, Blurred Vision, and Water Attunement. (-Just saying-)

Rebeliel · Jun 26, 2005, 10:15 AM // 10:15

What is this?

The thread has been going on for so long and no one has brought up the absolute best reason to become hydromancer. I am talking about the ward against harm. It's the skill that suddenly makes your casters as good tanks as warriors are. The first time i saw it in skill list i was like "wow, thats ridiculously good".

Last night i was leading a tombs group with one water ele. I asked him to take ward against harm. After some negotiating he did take it over the water trident. I didn't take a single warrior and we had "only" two monks, i was playing interruption mesmer. (Damn i hate people who go 3 monk unless one is smiter). Right at the start we lost one player, he got replaced by fighter hench who wasn't any usefull.

So we flawlessed some weaker teams and came to a king of the hill match. We rushed to the middle and with the ward we stayed the whole time alive against two teams attacking us the same time, one of the teams was a air ele spike build. Who says a team needs 3 monks? If you want to take it one step further you can bring ranger elite, greater conflagration. Instead of having like 28 bonus armor against things, you get over 50 bonus.

After these great games, our hydromancer dropped and we were devastated in the next fight.

The lesson is that the ward against harm owns. It is better than the two earth wards combined and that is a lot. Even the earth wards can easily decide a game, ward against harm does it even more clearly and you can even combine it with the earth wards for maximum effect.

You could go hydro/earth being secoundary mesmer and putting few points to energy storage. You could bring mesmer skills for energy management and to prevent being interrupted. You could then cast 3 wards. You could also ask a ranger to bring conflagration sprit and your team would be pretty much untouchable

Tengoku No Yushosha · Jun 27, 2005, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebeliel

What is this?

The thread has been going on for so long and no one has brought up the absolute best reason to become hydromancer. I am talking about the ward against harm. It's the skill that suddenly makes your casters as good tanks as warriors are. The first time i saw it in skill list i was like "wow, thats ridiculously good".

Last night i was leading a tombs group with one water ele. I asked him to take ward against harm. After some negotiating he did take it over the water trident. I didn't take a single warrior and we had "only" two monks, i was playing interruption mesmer. (Damn i hate people who go 3 monk unless one is smiter). Right at the start we lost one player, he got replaced by fighter hench who wasn't any usefull.

So we flawlessed some weaker teams and came to a king of the hill match. We rushed to the middle and with the ward we stayed the whole time alive against two teams attacking us the same time, one of the teams was a air ele spike build. Who says a team needs 3 monks? If you want to take it one step further you can bring ranger elite, greater conflagration. Instead of having like 28 bonus armor against things, you get over 50 bonus.

After these great games, our hydromancer dropped and we were devastated in the next fight.

The lesson is that the ward against harm owns. It is better than the two earth wards combined and that is a lot. Even the earth wards can easily decide a game, ward against harm does it even more clearly and you can even combine it with the earth wards for maximum effect.

You could go hydro/earth being secoundary mesmer and putting few points to energy storage. You could bring mesmer skills for energy management and to prevent being interrupted. You could then cast 3 wards. You could also ask a ranger to bring conflagration sprit and your team would be pretty much untouchable

I agree that this ward "owns". Even though I only got it today, I love it already! Though the only problem is that sometimes people don't know when to get in the wards. Still, this ward makes what a Hydromancer quite powerful.

Rebeliel · Jun 27, 2005, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tengoku No Yushosha

I agree that this ward "owns". Even though I only got it today, I love it already! Though the only problem is that sometimes people don't know when to get in the wards. Still, this ward makes what a Hydromancer quite powerful.

Yes, the ward can be useless if people don't know about it. You should inform all people that you have the ward and tell about it's benefits. You can also tell them that you ping ward location on minimap when you create one. Warriors don't nessecarily need to be under the ward as they have high armor anyways and probably can't get to good targets under the ward.

Myodato · Jun 27, 2005, 09:35 AM // 09:35

The dislike of Water magic is just an extention of the text-book ignorance too often displayed in this game. The same people who say don't use Water also say Monk=Healing and Warrior=Tank.

Don't compare Water to Fire or Air, compare it to the spells used by Mesmers and Necros. Would you refuse to take a Mesmer because an Air Ele can do more damage ? Hydromancer is a very flexible line of skills, though this can make it hard for people to create the sort of focused build required for PvP. It can, however, allow you to still deal out damage similar to a Fire/Air ele, but also have a number of support skills to help control the combat. Personally, as a primary Water Mage, I prefer to go all out support caster, with just a little bit of focused damage to help out once I've got everyone locked down.

Dreamsmith · Jun 27, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScorchedSun

A good pure earth elementalist can tank and I've seen it

.

In fact, Geomancers are better tanks than Warriors. Until the disenchant comes, of course.